Brother UK Cycling Podcast – Episode 62
Timothy John
“Hello and welcome to this new edition of the Brother UK Cycling Podcast with me Timothy John and our special guest Bjoern Koerdt, Britain’s newest WorldTour rider and the latest to graduate to the professional ranks with the support of The Rayner Foundation.
“Bjoern, thanks very much indeed for joining me today.”
Bjoern Koerdt
”Thank-you for having me.”
INTERLUDE
Timothy John
“Three years with DSM-Firmenich-PostNL, a WorldTour team. You must be delighted.”
Bjoern Koerdt
“Yeah. It’s always been a dream of mine to turn professional, so to do it so soon is a huge achievement, and I’m super pleased.”
Timothy John
“You’ve done it in double quick time. This won’t be your first experience with that team, though. You’ve been riding with them as a stagiaire since August. How did that come about?”
Bjoern Koerdt
“Yeah, I had quite a bit of success fairly early on in the season, sort of April time. A few teams reached out, but DSM really stood out to me. We managed to sort it out from there, and they were keen to get me on board straight away. I started as a stagiaire on August 1. My first race was in Norway, and I proceeded to do more.”
Timothy John
“It’s become a bit of a home for young British riders. I spent a week with the team in January and of course there’s Max Poole and Oscar Onley and Sean Flynn and four guys on the under-23 team.
“Is it an easy team for a young British rider to assimilate into?”
Bjoern Koerdt
“Yeah, of course, there’s a lot of British talent on that team. That was something appealed to me quite a bit. They’ve clearly done a really, really good job with those riders, and I hope I have the same sort of pathway in future.”
Timothy John
“How valuable was the period as stagiaire from your perspective? We tend to think of it, of course, as a period that benefits the team. They get to see the rider close up and decide whether it’s somebody who could add value to their organisation, but I guess it’s of equal value to you as a rider.”
Bjoern Koerdt
“Yeah. Obviously, making that step up is pretty big, especially coming from a lower down team: DN1 in France, so it was a less pressurised way for me to take that middle step and head up."
INTERLUDE
Timothy John
“Well, they certainly kept you busy. I think you had four stage races back-to-back in the short time that you were with them, and they were clearly impressed by your contribution during that period. We’ll get onto that a bit later.
Youth League.
“We’ve got a bit of a window on that through Marc Etches, who’s become a bit of a friend of the podcast, one of the organisers there.
your trade as well. Did it get you off to a good start?”
Bjoern Koerdt
“Yeah. There were always races there, and, as you said, that’s what I started off doing. My dad would take me there on a weekday, usually Wednesday night. It starts off as good fun racing but you really develop a passion for it and take it on to the next level after that.”
Timothy John
“Was cycling part of your family? Was your dad a rider?”
Bjoern Koerdt
“My dad started cycling pretty late, but he was the one who got me into it. He would take me out at weekends and take me to races. He’s been a massive support.”
Timothy John
“Typically, when I do these interviews, Bjoern, I say to the rider, how popular was cycling in your peer group, and they look back at me a bit shamefaced and say, actually, I was the only kid in the school that was into cycling.
“I guess in Yorkshire, it would be a different. Was it a natural thing for a guy of your age to get involved in?”
Bjoern Koerdt
“There’s certainly a lot of talent around, specifically from my school. There’s another rider, just one year older than me, Ben Houlihan. We went to the same school together. He’s now out performing in Spain, so certainly no shortage of riders.”
Timothy John
“And no shortage of inspiration. You had the Grand Départ in 2014; the world championships in 2019. Did that spark your interest, or was it something smaller and closer to home?”
Bjoern Koerdt
“I started racing when I was five or six years old, but I didn’t miss the opportunity to go and watch the pros race, whether it was the Tour de Yorkshire or Tour de France or World Championships, as you said. It just made me more keen for the sport and more keen to get to that top step.”
Timothy John
“And that very early start: you mentioned it was your dad who got you into it. Was it his intention that you would be a racer? Or was it simply the best way of acquiring the skills to be a competent cyclist?”
Bjoern Koerdt
“I think he was just doing it for fun at the time. I think his initial attempt was to get one of my sisters onto it. Neither of those seemed too keen, but as soon as I saw the bike, I fell in love with it. I suppose it developed naturally. I’m quite a competitive person, I’d say, and it didn’t take long until I was asking to be taken to races, and it started off from there.”
Timothy John
“What was that initial appeal? The speed? The freedom? The chance to get a new bike? What lit that fuse for you?”
Bjoern Koerdt
“I think all of the above, really. I love to go fast. I love a bit of danger. I still have the same feeling. It’s just fun, and I love to do it.”
Timothy John
“One of the many aspects, or one of the other aspects, I should say, about such a thriving scene in that part of the country is the number of clubs up there.
“You started with East Bradford, you moved to Shibden, which, of course, has become pretty much the world’s leading junior team on the female side.
“How did they help you? I see that you rode the Junior Tour of the Basque Country with them.”
Bjoern Koerdt
“All the teams have helped me on my way up, whether it was the smaller, local bike shops who helped me at the beginning - Crosstrax or All Terrain Cycles - and then, of course, East Bradford, Shibden. They’ve all played a massive part.
and Zappi as well, doing the same thing: European trips and giving British riders a chance to show themselves on the Continent.”
INTERLUDE
Timothy John
“One of the continuing themes of this podcast is the health of the British domestic road scene. Brother has been a key sponsor for over a decade. Phil Jones, the Managing Director of the company, was a member of the Elite Road Racing Task Force set up by British Cycling to investigate the failing health of the elite road scene in this country.
you forwards?”
Bjoern Koerdt
“I’d say it’s a bit of a combination of the two. I think it’s safe to say that the level, when you do those international races, is a little bit higher, but, like you said, there’s a lot of talent in the UK, and, again, it’s those stepping stones, so doing those races, those nationals, and even Nat Bs in your more local area is a way to progress.
think they prepared me quite well for when those teams gave me the opportunity to go over to France, Belgium or The Netherlands and race there.”
Timothy John
“Let’s come on to discuss that. You were with CC Etupes before this latest step up to DSM-Firmenich-PostNL. Was it an option to race in the UK, to join a team like Saint Piran or somebody like that, or is the scene of a standard now, of a status where going abroad seemed like the natural way to progress your career?”
Bjoern Koerdt
“I really wanted to do those international races, and France seemed like the best place to do that, and with the interest of CC Etupes, and, of course, the support of the Rayner Foundation, it made it possible to go over there, and, clearly, it’s worked out quite well.”
Timothy John
“Absolutely. A big step, I guess you would have been 18 when you began this journey of racing overseas. Did it feel like a big step, or did it feel like a natural progression?”
Bjoern Koerdt
“A natural progression, really. I was a first year under-23 when I first went out there, but the team did a really good job of putting me in the right races and not necessarily throwing me into the biggest races they do, so I got my chance to perform as a leader in smaller races and then support the team in the bigger ones, and the combination of the two helped me to develop and get to where I am now.
Timothy John
“And how about on the domestic side? I guess it would have been your first time living away from home, would it?”
Bjoern Koerdt
“Yeah. No stranger to travel before living away, but we were together as team-mates. The foreign riders in the team, we shared an apartment. It was a real family environment, so it wasn’t too much of a change for me.”
Timothy John
“Were you aware before you joined that it had been Adam Yates’ team before he turned professional?”
Bjoern Koerdt
“Yes. I was aware of the few of the stars who had been there, but his name certainly stood out as a British legend.”
Timothy John
“Yeah, that’s quite a validation, isn’t it, of the club and all that it’s achieved that it can produce a rider of that quality.
“Aside from the racing, what was your biggest takeaway from that first year overseas? I guess you would have been building life skills as well as skills on the bike.”
Bjoern Koerdt
“Yeah, j ust growing up, I suppose. Learning to live on your own. Just doing those things that your parents would normally do for you but, again, the team was super supportive, so there was never any real difficulty while I was out there. If worst, comes to worse, you can always make scrambled eggs.”
Timothy John
“How was your French before you went out there?”
Bjoern Koerdt
“Not great. I knew a few words just from being on holiday and racing there and got a little bit better, but certainly, as far as French teams go, it’s really international, and English was a pretty [commonly} spoken language in that team, so it was good.”
Timothy John
“Are you cocooned within the world of cycling? You’re there primarily as an athlete. Or do you have to get on and integrate with wider society, and has that helped you in your development as a rider?”
Bjoern Koerdt
“Yeah. All of those daily tasks outside of cycling, going to the shops or if you wanted to go to a restaurant or something, or even, when you are riding and out need to ask for directions because you have no idea where you are, it forces your hand and you do have to integrate a bit and that helps you a bit. I think that helps again when you transfer it over to cycling.”
Timothy John
“Yeah. It’s one of the big goals of The Rayner Foundation, I know, that it’s producing well-rounded young people rather than professional cyclists. They consider it a bonus when a rider signs a contract but the ultimate aim is to provide young people with lifechanging opportunities, and it’s clearly done that for you.
“You mentioned that the team has been careful with your development. I think you raced just seventeen times last year. A huge step forward this year. Hindsight, of course, is a wonderful thing, but did you know that you were ready to make this step? Had you told the team, ‘Look I’m ready to push on now. This is my time’?”
Bjoern Koerdt
“I think, yeah, last year, it would have been better to race a few more days. I started fairly late due to a bit of illness and then ended up breaking my collarbone towards the end of the season which reduced those races days, but, like I said, they wanted to ease me into it. The first year was, primarily, learning, and the second year, straight from the bat, I think my second race, first race weekend, I manged to get a top five.
really smoothly.”
Timothy John
“You had a very busy early season programme and then overall victory at La Boucle de l'Artois.
“So it a mutual thing, was it, a virtuous circle, where you would be given more opportunities, you’d maximise, and in turn the team would give you more responsibility?”
Bjoern Koerdt
“Yeah, definitely. There’s always…Funnily enough, you mentioned that race {La Boucle de l'Artois}, I wasn’t supposed to be the leader there. I got myself in a breakaway to help out the guys behind so they wouldn’t have to ride, but, in the end, it ended up staying away, and I got myself a podium on that stage.
“Things change, but there were races where I had to work, those flatter sprint stages and things, but, yeah, also days where I have the full support of the team, so it’s a good mix.”
Timothy John
“I think if there’s one race, Bjoern, that encapsulates this huge step forwards that you’ve taken in the last 12 months, it might be the U23 Liége-Bastogne-Liége, where you were 69th last year and ninth this year.
“Are we comparing apples with apples here? Have you just improved by that amount, or were they two very different races?”
Bjoern Koerdt
“Oh, I think I was quite unprepared for the first one but, nevertheless, I’ve certainly made a lot of improvements since then. It was a big focus of mine coming into it this year, and I was really happy to do so well in the end.”
Timothy John
“What role has the Great Britain team played in your development? Two U23 Liège-Bastogne-Liège, as we say. You’ve ridden the Tour d’Alsace twice. You were at the Ronde de l’Isard this year.
“I spoke to Louis Sutton earlier in the year, who was telling me just how valuable the opportunities he’s received from Team GB have been. Have they been of a similar value to you?”
Bjoern Koerdt
“I’m yet to race for GB on the road. I have been offered the opportunities, but, unfortunately, due to my broken collarbone in June was it now? In May. In May it was. I had to miss out on the Peace Race.
“But they have been supportive and offered those opportunities. I’m just yet to take one up, but they’ve certainly helped out in the past for cyclo-cross and for mountain biking. I’ve represented the nation.
“It’s a good support that they’ve got there.”
Timothy John
“Great. It’s a very fluid situation at under 23, isn’t it? Of course, some of the biggest races are conducted by teams; others, like the Tour de l’Avenir are national races.
“The Tour of Britain, of course, was a race for DSM-Firmenich-PostNL, and it was a brilliant edition. It was constantly aggressive, attacks all the time; very different to what we normally see, which is the doomed television breakaway and the WorldTour teams bringing back the escapees near the finish.
“When we think about last year, Visma completely controlled the first five stages. This year could not have been any more different. How was it from inside the race?”
Bjoern Koerdt
“Certainly quite tough. It was a really good race, and I enjoyed racing on home roads. Unfortunately, I had a crash on stage two which added to the difficulty of the race, but, in the end, the team did a great job, and second on GC was certainly a really nice result to finish off with.”
Timothy John
“Did that bring additional pressure? Of course, you had Oscar riding high on GC and in his home town on the opening stage. Were you in the spotlight more than you might have been?”
Bjoern Koerdt
“I suppose so, but the team did a really good job to handle that pressure. It wasn’t the first time we’d been in that situation, even for me. At my first race, Keven Vermaerke was third on GC, and in the white jersey as well, so it wasn’t a new scenario.
“On a smaller scale, when I’m doing my own races for CC Etupes, when you’re in that position there’s the same pressure to hold onto jerseys and perform. It’s something you get used to as a rider whatever the level.”
Timothy John
“How did it feel being back on home roads? There are different perspectives depending on who you speak to. It’s a bit of an anomaly, I think, for the established pros to be racing back at home.
“Obviously, we love it as fans, and the crowds come out in their tens of thousands. How was the experience from inside the barriers?”
Bjoern Koerdt
“It’s certainly something different. It was the first time I’d done a race of that scale at home. I really, really enjoyed it: just hearing your name being cheered from random parts of the country. That’s something you don’t get all the time in Europe so it was a nice homely setting, obviously.”
Timothy John
“Have any of the pro races you’ve done been on a similar scale? The Arctic Race of Norway I guess is pretty remote. The Deutschland Tour might be a fair comparison. Are the crowds bigger in Britain, or do we just think of it that way because it’s our premier event?”
Bjoern Koerdt
“Certainly a lot of people came out in Germany at the Deutschland Tour, which was quite cool. With my dad being half-German as well, it was sort of a home race away from home, so another really cool event, and, as I say, big crowds.
“And than in the end [of the season] in Malaysia also at the Tour of Langkawi, a lot of people showed up for those as well. It’s nice to see that spectators are coming out wherever you are.”
Timothy John
“Great. It was a really tough schedule, wasn’t it? You did the Tour d’Alsace, then the Deutschland Tour, Arctic Race of Norway, Tour of Britain. You must have been feeing it in the legs by the time you got to Langkawi?”
Bjoern Koerdt
“Yeah. It was certainly a tough spell of races but the team do a great job to help you recover again, and there was enough time in between those races to reset and get ready for the next one. I was having so much fun anyway, I didn’t really notice it too much.”
Timothy John
“You guys won Langkawi with Max Poole, and it did seem to be a team gathering momentum towards the end of the season. Is that how it felt from the inside?"
Bjoern Koerdt
“Yeah. Obviously, I sort of jumped in last minute there, but from when I started it felt like there was a ball rolling, and whatever the race, whether it was the ones I was at or elsewhere, the team were really picking up results left, right and centre, and it was quite nice to be a part of.”
INTERLUDE
Timothy John
“You’re 20 years old. You now have a three-year contract with a professional team, and this is rapidly becoming the norm. We’re seeing the average age in the peloton fall and fall.
“There is this phrase, isn’t there, ‘good enough, old enough’. I guess that’s something you subscribe to, or can it be daunting? Can it be pressurised?”
Bjoern Koerdt
“No. I feel like I’m ready to step up, and the team believes in me as well, otherwise they wouldn’t have given me that opportunity. Like you said, if you think you’ve got the ability and the team thinks you do, you can step up.
“Those first races have been quite reassuring. I think with a good winter and with the team’s full support, I can be ready for an even better season next year.”
Timothy John
“How valuable has The Rayner Foundation been in your journey?”
Bjoern Koerdt
“Immensely. As I said, I wouldn’t have been able to go out to Etupes in the first place were it not for them, and then throughout those two years, while I’ve been in France, the support has been really, really good.”
Timothy John
“So it’s been that important: you wouldn’t have been able to make this journey without them?”
Bjoern Koerdt
“Yeah, financially it’s vital for some of those riders. For me, it was putting food on the table. It’s crazy to think were it not for them, I don’t think any of this would have been possible.
“It’s a massive thing that they’re doing, and I really hope that it keeps going for other riders now, and they can also take those steps up and get to the same level.”
INTERLUDE
Timothy John
“Do you have any idea yet what next year will hold, or are these things to be discussed at the first training camp?”
Bjoern Koerdt
“Not yet. I don’t know yet what races I’ll be doing but most likely some of those Ardennes Classics and races similar to those I’d been doing at the end of the season: hilly stage races and whatever they think is best suited for me. I trust their judgement, and I’m sure I’m in good hands.”
Timothy John
“Are you expecting a mix of under-23 races and pro races, or an unbroken diet of professional races, having proved yourself at that level?”
Bjoern Koerdt
“Primarily, I think, those professional races, but it would be quite nice to take on a few under-23 races with the development team, perhaps, just as a chance to be a bit more of a leader, I suppose, because, as we said, there’s a lot of talent on this team.
“I’m yet to prove that I have the edge on these guys, and they’re certainly at a higher level than me at the moment, so I’m all-out to help them but obviously it’s nice to get our own shot are races more your speed as well.”
Timothy John
“Absolutely. What about on the domestic side? They, of course, have the Keep Challenging Centre. Is that where you’ll be based to begin with? Have you thought about where you might live?”
Bjoern Koerdt
“Yeah. I‘ll be heading off to Spain, Girona, over the winter but when the season gets going, I’ll be at the Keep Challenging Centre, like you said, in Sittard.
“It’s a good place for me to develop, and the facilities there are brilliant, so I’m really looking forward to it.”
Timothy John
“Well, one less thing to worry about as you start this huge step forwards in your career.
“Bjoern, thank-you very much indeed for joining us today, and congratulations again on your success with DSM.”
Bjoern Koerdt
“Thank-you very much. Thank-you for having me.”
Timothy John
“And, finally Louis, what’s your long-term goal, and are you any closer to it after this Tour of Britain?”
Louis Sutton
“Yeah, long-term goal is obviously stepping up to the professional peloton and doing races like the Tour of Britain most weekends. Nothing is set in stone yet, so we’ll wait and see. Hopefully, after the world championships, I’ll be able to say I’m in a professional team.”
Timothy John
“Well, you would be the latest in a very long line of Rayner riders to have made that jump.
“Very best of luck with it, and thank you very much again for joining us today.”
Louis Sutton
“Thank-you. Cheers.”
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