Brother UK Cycling Podcast – Episode 60
Timothy John
“Hello and welcome to this special edition of the Brother UK Cycling Podcast, where our guest today is Rayner rider Louis Sutton of AVC Aix-en-Provence, seen most recently in a Great Britain jersey hanging tough with Remco Evenepoel, Julian Alaphilippe and Stevie Williams at the Lloyds Bank Tour of Britain Men.
“Louis, thank-you very much indeed for joining us today.”
Louis Sutton
“Hi. How are you?”
Timothy John
“Pretty well. Thanks very much again for giving us your time. You are very much the man of the moment.”
Louis Sutton
“No, hardly. I’m still the amateur cyclist, so nothing too busy.”
Timothy John
“Have you been surprised, dare I say overwhelmed, after the strength of your Tour of Britain performance?”
Louis Sutton
“There has been quite a lot, to be fair. I’m not really used to anything, but it’s good to see, finally, a bit of my work is being shown, I guess.”
Timothy John
“How did it all begin for you, Louis? What was your route into cycling?”
Louis Sutton
“I started off just as a mountain biker. I just did it for fun, really, and then one of my good friends, Oli Stockwell, got me to go to Welwyn Wheelers, the local club near me. I’m from St Albans, so it’s like a 10-minute ride.
“I started going there and doing cyclo-cross, mountain biking and a little bit of road. From there, I just slowly did a bit of racing. I started the road quite late, I’d say. I did two or three races as a junior and then got an opportunity to go to Spain. I really liked it, so I was like, ‘You know what? I’ll give it a shot.’ I wasn’t really into the old uni, university, so I went there. From there, I managed to do alright, then got onto Aix, and from there to where I am now.”
Timothy John
“Aix is building a formidable peloton of British riders: Harrison Wood and Ollie Knight, both guests on this podcast, who graduated from its ranks to the WorldTour with Cofidis. How are you settling in at Aix? I think this is your second year.”
Louis Sutton
“Yeah, this is my second year. I’ve really liked it there. It’s been really comfortable; like a family-type team, to be honest. I’ve got loads of team-mates and it helps that a few of them are English. It’s a bit easier sometimes. I think there are three other English riders this year: Jack Brough, Mark Lightfoot and Joe Brooks, so that really helps.
“And from before, there are people who still live there now, Harrison and Ollie, who are good riders to look up to as well, so, yeah, it’s a really good team.”
Timothy John
“I bet their experience is invaluable. They’ve literally walked the path that you’re now on.
“Are you in a team house? Are you in a domestic set-up with a host family? How does the accommodation work?”
Louis Sutton
“The team gives us a house just outside of the centre of Aix-en-Provence. It’s really nice. I’m living there with the other guys, and it’s really good just to be all together in the same situation. You all know what you need to do, and it works really well.”
Timothy John
“And how did your opportunity to race in Spain come about in the first instance? Was it a lack of opportunities in the UK that took you out there? Was it a once-in-a-lifetime opportunity? What took you into such mountainous country?”
Louis Sutton
“Yeah, so, really, there was this race in Spain; it’s like a sort of set-up they’ve got, kind of near me. They look for riders who want to go to this team in Spain. At the time, it was called NetLot-Ale, and now it’s called Brocar-Rali-Ale.
“They saw me do a few local races and, from there, they were like, ‘Do you want to give it a shot in Spain for a year?’ And, yeah I just jumped for that, really. I knew that the scene wasn’t as good in England at the minute. I thought: ‘You know what? I’ve got to get to Europe, and it’ll be a good experience no matter what.”
Timothy John
“Yeah, that’s quite an interesting observation. We’ve got a glut of hugely talented young riders. We’ll come on to talk about that in the Tour of Britain. It seems that no sooner has the last golden generation come through the ranks than there’s a new one hot on their heels.
“But there are, sadly, fewer and fewer races. Was that a big part of your thinking when the opportunity for Spain came around?”
Louis Sutton
“Yeah, definitely. I saw that there wasn’t any real step up and the teams that do…I saw all the races that there were in Europe, and that really dragged me towards that.
“And also I wanted to experience what it’s like living abroad. At the same time, it’s a bit of a year out; instead of uni, people do gap years, and I was like, ‘Alright, if cycling doesn’t really work out, I can just give it a gap year anyway. There’s nothing to lose.’ So, yeah, I just chose that.”
Timothy John
“Still quite a brave decision. How different is the racing over there?”
Louis Sutton
“Yeah, it’s quite different, I’d say, compared to…As I said, I didn’t race too much in England, but it’s quite controlled [in Spain], and they wait until the climbs, because there are a lot of climbs. I kind of preferred that style of racing, so it worked out well for me.”
Timothy John
“What led you to Aix, and where does the Rayner Foundation come in to all of this?”
Louis Sutton
“Rayner started helping me out after my first year in Spain, because I was unknown to anyone. I’d had one year in Spain and won a couple of races, I think; maybe just one, but I’d podiumed in a few other races in Spain. Then Rayner started helping me, funding me to live out in Spain for the following year.
“When I was a second-year, I managed to get a few more results. I think there was one race in Spain where Aix was in it as well. I started speaking to Ollie, asking him what it was like on that team. He recommended me, and I managed to join the following year.”
Timothy John
“And how valuable is the support of the Foundation? Could you do this without them?”
Louis Sutton
“Oh, no. It would be really difficult, to be honest. I wouldn’t have had the help. I wouldn’t have been able to fund it myself through the year when I was in Spain or on Aix. They’ve really supported me through all of my final three years of under-23. Without them, I wouldn’t be here.”
Timothy John
“That’s good to know. That’s a very common story among scores of WorldTour professionals: Sam Watson, Oscar Onley, Harrison and Ollie to name only the latest cohort. That’s wonderful to hear.
“You’ve certainly repaid their support. You won the Tour of Bidasoa in the Basque Country earlier this season. I think it began with a breakaway. You were second, I think, on stage three. Where were the foundations for that victory laid?”
Louis Sutton
“Yeah, so, really that was a super tough race. The first day was finishing up a 20-minute climb. There weren’t too many times gaps that day. I think I got second on the first stage, and then the second stage went up quite a famous climb called the Jaizkibel, which is used by the Classica San Sebastian. We climbed that, and then descended to the finish. I got away in a group on the climb and managed to get somewhere up there on that day. And then on the final day was a up a super steep Basque climb, like 3kms at 12 per cent, or something stupid! Me and one other rider managed to get away, and that’s how I won, on the final day, really.”
Timothy John
“This will sound like a ridiculous question: are you a climber? Given your performance in the Tour of Britain, where you seemed completely at home on those heavy British roads, dishing it out to the likes of Remco Evenepoel…
“Is it on the steeper climbs where you really come into your own?”
Louis Sutton
“Yeah, I’d say I do prefer climbs and mountains, but I also like…I’m not really sure what style of rider I am yet. I’d say punchy but also like the long climbs. Whenever it’s difficult, really, I tend to do a lot better. I’m not the best yet at getting involved in the big bunch sprints, but that’s something to improve, I guess.”
Timothy John
“Well you certainly sprinted well enough against Remco coming into Redcar.”
Louis Sutton
“He rolled me still! He still rolled me, but I gave it a shot.”
Timothy John
“Well, that was a brutal day, which we’ll come onto discuss in some detail.
“I mean, another big success in Spain at the Volta a Castelló, which I think is a race that both Harrison and Ollie have done well in in the past. You were second overall last year, two stages this year. How valuable has that been in your development?”
Louis Sutton
“Yeah, I think just doing all of these stage races really does help, to be honest, and the ones in Spain, especially, suited me a lot. There are lots of climbs, very difficult days, and I think there’s more for me to work with.
“I found it hard to get results in stage races in France, because I’m not the best quite yet at predicting races and quite a lot of French racing is a bit of luck of the draw at certain times, but, yeah, it’s all good racing but harder for me to get wins consistently in France.”
Timothy John
“Was it your performances at the races we’ve just discussed, Bidosa and Castelló, that caught the eye of the Great Britain team and got you on board for the Tour de l’Avenir, or had you already made contact with the federation? Were you already on their radar?”
Louis Sutton
“Yeah, I think it was Bidosa where they took interest in me, and they saw that I was quite consistent in my results in France as well. Previously, I’d been mainily a bit of a worker for one of my team-mates, Clément Izquierdo. Earlier in the season, I was always consistently top 10, top 15, and he was either first or second or third.
“They saw that and took me to the Course de la Paix, which is a Nations Cup in the Czech Republic. On the first stage, I got second place, so, from there, I think that kind of got me into the team properly.”
Timothy John
“And that performance at the Tour de l’Avenir were you aware that the team was on the verge of, and then achieving, something historic, or were you simply focussed on the racing day-by-day?”
Louis Sutton
“Oh, I knew Joe [Blackmore] was flying, I knew he was such a good rider. I knew I was going to go into that race as a key domestique for him, and it really worked out well. We all had trust in Joe and in each other to do the work, and, day-by-day, we just solidified that final GC result.”
Timothy John
“Yeah, I mean another hugely impressive performance. Was it that which led to your selection for the Tour of Britain?”
Louis Sutton
“Oh, no. Tour of Britain was a last minute call-up for me. On the Sunday night of the Tour de l’Avenir, I messaged Matt Brammeier, the DS and head of all of our GB performance.
ill or something. Two days before the race, I was in France, and I got the call-up, and I was buzzing. I just jumped at that opportunity straight away.”
Timothy John
“Wow, well you absolutely maximised that opportunity.
“There’s an interesting piece today on The British Continental about the value of those Great Britain slots to riders in the domestic scene who might not be on a UCI team like Saint Piran.
“How valuable was that selection for the Tour of Britain to you, and, had you chosen to stay in the UK, would it have had greater significance, do you think?”
Louis Sutton
“Oh, massively. It was my first ever pro race. Not many people watch amateur racing or even U23 UCI, so just being able to race against the likes of Remco, Alaphilippe, Stevie Williams, yeah, it’s a massive opportunity, and you’ve got to grasp it, because it might be your only opportunity.
through the camera.”
Timothy John
“Absolutely. Heck of a shop window.
with Astana.
“Domestic rider Michael Gill, and a couple of teenagers, one of them with a famous name, Ben Wiggins, whose forging a fine career for himself and mountain biker Lucas Greensill.
“So what was the atmosphere in the team? A pretty diverse range of experience.”
Louis Sutton
“I’d met Ben before, but, other than him, I’d never met anyone else. We had a really good crack together, and it was really good fun, actually. That’s when it makes a good team, I feel. We all got on really well.
“It was good to have Matt for his experience. He’s done the Tour of Britain before, and he’s done really well, so it was really good for him to talk about what to do and what not to do in certain situations.
“The Tour of Britain is a weird race, because of the roads. It’s difficult but not too difficult so the race makes itself.”
Timothy John
“That’s a very interesting observation. The Tour of Britain you rode in, Louis, was unlike any I had seen before. Ben Wiggins described it on Instagram as a ‘Nat B’, and I think that was meant as a complement! It was brilliant racing every day.”
Louis Sutton
“Yeah, it was constant every day. I remember, was it the third day? The third stage, Alaphilippe goes in an attack on the first climb, and he’s away with one minute with another INEOS rider for like the first 30km, and that’s normally unheard of for one of the best riders in the race to go in an early breakaway.”
Timothy John
“It’s incredible to say, Louis, but you matched him pedal stroke for pedal stroke. You were in the early breakaway, and then when it all came back together and the heavyweights reformed and kicked off again towards the end, there you were. Tell us about that.”
Louis Sutton
“I’d always planned that day to get in the early breakaway. I’d planned to try my best in the first 20 minutes, which must have been probably one of the hardest parts of the race for me, really, to make sure I got in the breakaway. I had to follow every move, but once I got in that it was ok. I just tried to rest as much as possible before. I knew eventually that Remco and everybody would come towards. From there, it was just survival, to be honest, and hang on.”
Timothy John
“’What were the concentration levels, and did that help to block out any of the pain?”
Louis Sutton
“To be honest, all I was thinking about…I don’t know what I was thinking about, to be honest, really. Just suffering and making sure I was able to always be there. It gave me more motivation and more will to go deep when I had Alaphilippe and Remco attacking me, because I know how good they are.”
Timothy John
“In the commentary, Ned Boulting said, ‘The bigger teams are trying to restore order,’ and David Millar replied, ‘Restoring order is an impossible task’. Is that how it felt on the road?”
Louis Sutton
“Yeah, literally. I feel like in the end no one gave the respect as they would have done in the past to the biggest teams, so it just made it a lot more difficult and like, as Ben Wiggins, said, a Nat B!
‘There was constant attacking, I remember. There were random points where someone would launch an attack. It was great, to be honest.”
Timothy John
“Why so different this year? There were short stages. There were fewer of them: it was a six-stage race, rather than an eight-day race. It was windy on a lot of days. What do you think triggered that, ‘Right, we’re going to race this in a British style?”
Louis Sutton
“I would say the conditions played a part in it. For stage three, the weather was a bit rainy, so I suppose that caused people just want to go early and get warm, as such, or stage two, there was wind as well and narrow roads, but then I guess the Tour of Britain always has narrow roads.
and Alaphilippe attacking 10kms in. Yeah, they want to make it as hard as possible.”
Timothy John
“It was an absolute treat as a spectator. You’d been up Saltburn Bank in the national championships. How much harder, how different was it in a professional peloton?”
Louis Sutton
“This time, it was a lot better. I can’t lie. At the national champs, I wasn’t in the best form. This time, I really got to experience it from the front where the fans are at their peak, I would say. There were so many fans.
“It was crazy to be honest, going up there with… I don’t know, someone attacked and just following that and only being in a group of eight. It was great, yeah.”
Timothy John
“Does it count as a climb? There are differing views on that. I mean, you talked about the Jaizkibel earlier from the Classica San Sebastian, I mean, it’s nothing like the same length, but is it a similar difficulty?”
Louis Sutton
“Oh, they’re different, really. This one is like a sprint. Towards the end, you’ve just got to sprint. It’s like going full, all your energy into it to get over in first place, whereases Jaizkebel is pacing it, it’s 20 minutes long. You’re more relaxed, but with that, you’re pumped. You’ve got everyone screaming from the side. There was that beer….the fan booth…I can’t remember the name, but there were loads of people there, and it was crazy.”
Timothy John
“And do the English fans compare with the Basque fans?”
Louis Sutton
“They’re actually similar. Basque fans are really good, and so are the British fans, so, yeah, fair play.”
INTERLUDE
Timothy John
“Plenty of great memories from the Tour of Britain, but what were the more challenging moments? You crashed on stage four, I think, at some speed and that sort of scuppered your race: you were unable to finish stage six.
“Was that a tough lesson to learn or are you by now accustomed to the brutal realities of bike racing?”
Louis Sutton
“Yeah, to be honest, I couldn’t really say I learned anything from that crash, as we were on a main road. it was quite chilled. The breakaway had just gone, and Israel had just started chasing. Someone hit a little bump. Their hands slipped and went straight into me and another rider at 60kph. After that, the other two stages were really rough. I, in the end, found out I was suffering a bit of mild concussion, so that’s why I couldn’t continue on stage six.”
Timothy John
“Wow. Were you checked at the time?”
Louis Sutton
“No, I got up so quick. I did like a flip. I must have slightly bashed something. I managed to get up instantly before any cars saw me on the floor properly, and then I just said, ‘Oh, I’m fine, I’ll carry on,’ because of the adrenaline, but then in the days after, I was like, ‘Oh, something’s not right.”
Timothy John
“It’s a difficult one, isn’t it? I’d interviewed a rider from one of our sponsored teams, a UC women’s team, a Portuguese rider who had crashed at the Volta a Portugal Feminina and did exactly the same as you: she’d crashed, hit her head, she wasn’t sure, but adrenaline took over, and she rode on. Her angle was, ‘We’ve all got to take a bit of responsibility here’. Is that realistic though for a rider in a bike race?”
Louis Sutton
“Yeah, I think so. At the end of the day, I did notice that something wasn’t properly right. I managed to get through that stage ok, but once the adrenaline died down, and I got through and started the next stage I was a bit so-so.
“At the start of stage six, I was really suffering, and then Matt called me up and said, ‘You’ve definitely got some symptoms, so we’ll get you back in the car and focus on recovery.’”
Timothy John
“That’s good to hear. What’s your biggest takeaway? What’s your biggest lesson from this Tour of Britain? It must have done wonders for your confidence.”
Louis Sutton
“I would say, don’t be scared of going early and attacking and using…over more, what would say, the big teams, the WorldTour teams. Don’t let them just predict and control the race. You go as well and get involved and not just be a puppet, to be honest.”
Timothy John
“I don’t think anyone can accuse you of that, Louis!
“What’s next on your agenda? We’ve got a world championships in a couple of weeks’ time. Could that be on your to-do list?”
Louis Sutton
“That’s my last race of the year now: the Zurich U23 road world championships. The course looks really good. It’s going to be a difficult one., but that’s my only target left. I’ve got to go all-in for that, really.”
Timothy John
“And the task of maintaining form until then: will you head back to France, or will you remain in the UK?”
Louis Sutton
“No, I’ll stay in the UK to be honest. I’ve had two big races in the legs, now: l’Avenir and the Tour of Britain. I’ve been recovering from the mild concussion, so now it’s just a few big rides before the big event, really, and it’s quite easy to keep the head switched on when it’s such a big race left.”
Timothy John
“Are there any pros around in Hemel Hempstead, St Albans, in your area? I know Anna Henderson’s from that part of the world.”
Louis Sutton
“Yeah, she is. Ollie Stockwell who rides for Friuli: I live litterally around the corner from him. We’re basically neighbours, but he’s in Italy, so, no, I’ll be on my own for these two weeks.”
INTERLUDE
Timothy John
“And, finally Louis, what’s your long-term goal, and are you any closer to it after this Tour of Britain?”
Louis Sutton
“Yeah, long-term goal is obviously stepping up to the professional peloton and doing races like the Tour of Britain most weekends. Nothing is set in stone yet, so we’ll wait and see. Hopefully, after the world championships, I’ll be able to say I’m in a professional team.”
Timothy John
“Well, you would be the latest in a very long line of Rayner riders to have made that jump.
“Very best of luck with it, and thank you very much again for joining us today.”
Louis Sutton
“Thank-you. Cheers.”
Timothy John
“Marc, thank-you very much for your time this evening. We’ve covered a whole range of topics, quite beyond what actually happens during the races; all of the background detail, which, of course, is so important for the long-term health of the sport.
"All the very best, Marc, for Monsal..."
Marc Etches
“I scared the living daylights out of all the riders yesterday by putting a post on Instagram today, ‘It’s two months away.’ Even Simon Warren from 100 Climbs. He’s in Italy eating pizza. I think that gave him a little bit of a reality check.”
Timothy John
“He’ll be dusting off his sign, no doubt, ready to get himself up to Monsal!”
Marc Etches
"He will, he will!"
Timothy John
“Marc, thanks again, and all the very best going forwards.”
Marc Etches
"Thank-you, Tim."
MUSIC
OUTRO
Phil Jones
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